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All right welcome everybody to the burnout panel discussion for February. So we are so excited about this topic this was something that was brought up to us during our last uh monthly discussion and this is about saying no effectively. Uh this is a sexy topic saying no and boundaries are very sexy topics people like to say the words a lot they like to talk about it a lot but what about actually doing it that's when it gets a little bit complicated. So the reason we wanted to talk about this is it's something that comes up in a lot of levels of organizations this is something that you may be struggling with as a manager as a team leader in the corporate setting in general. If you're an entrepreneur you're going to be running into this all the time if you are on a team you may be running into this. So this is something we want to make sure we cover on multiple levels and there's going to be so much juicy stuff from everybody on the panel today. So as a general reason why say no is important because without it this is where things start to go south this is where you start to court burnout and as we were talking about earlier nobody wants to date burnout. Nobody wants it you know what nobody wants that relationship so people think about about boundaries as building these brick walls and it's going to create this distance between me and other people it's going to create instant conflict. Um it comes right into our hardwired sense of belonging if I say no I'm going to create a distance it's going to get me kicked out of the village or it's going to make somebody else feel bad it puts us in this either or either I win or they win there can be a power struggle feeling here. Um this is something that is going to make you have to admit that you're a human being with limitations you don't have endless amounts of energy to just give away to whatever you want you actually have to prioritize and be able to communicate those prior those priorities.
So let's jump into the actual solutions of the no and I think that will develop as we go along more reasons as to why saying no and then creating these boundaries is super important to get us as a far away from burnout as possible. Go ahead jump in.
So um I don't know if we want to intro ourselves we've done a lot of these so I think everyone can just pop over to our LinkedIn pages but my name's Aileen and I'm going to kind of start from a place of before we talk about the strategies for saying no which my colleagues have excellent resources and tips and tools to do how do we kind of look at that prevention like we talk about being proactive about this. So my strategy is turning inward to create more awareness of your limits so you're not setting yourself up to only start saying no when you're already taking on or have taken on more than you can handle. So like Audrey said I think there's some shame and stigma around like we expect we're super super human superheroes and that we can just take on everything but we all are human we all have a maximum capacity so creating a little more space for stillness for silence for just checking in with yourself to even know am I starting to feel overwhelmed. We were chatting before I went live about like oh starting to get a little of that texture of overwhelm so when we can notice that and create the space to really be sniffing it out in advance before we're completely over tired overburdened overworked exhausted burnt out. Then we can integrate some more of the strategies we'll talk about today effectively because if we're already in that place we're going to have less bandwidth less cognitive faculties and then what can be a hard conversation will feel that much harder. So I think Dr. Sharon wanted to piggyback on that and we'll keep chatting from there.
Awesome thank you Aileen and I'm Dr Sharon on the Burnout Dock and I think of this like any other thing. I think there's always two things that you want to look at one is the Tactical of like how do I say no right like maybe there's some script that will allow you to have just like more ease with this idea of like okay now I have something to follow but I think the other piece which is huge is mindset. So if you're a manager and you really need to say no to other people it can be challenging because you want to be seen as helpful you want to accommodate your team members but it's also crucial to establish some boundaries and make decisions that align with your team's goals and priorities. So to do so what I'd like to share is that it's important to actively listen to the request and take into consideration factors such as what are the resources that I have available to me. Um and resources can be your time your energy but it can also be like other factors. Um the impact on other team members the potential consequences of saying yes or no because either one of those there's always consequences to be really thoughtful of and be sure to communicate clearly and honestly with the person who's putting the request out there. Then explain your decision and provide any sort of alternative options if you are going to say no or maybe suggestions that may be helpful. So sometimes it's um well I'm not available to do this but you might ask so and so or I can't do this right now but I'll be available this afternoon or next week. You know so kind of having the those kinds of alternatives is really helpful and so with that I'd like to pass the Baton to one of our other experts because we have so much that we would like to share. So who would like to go next?
I'll jump in my name is Cait Donovan. I am the host of Fried the Burnout Podcast and one of the things that I like to teach people is to build boundaries Say no by being a brat b-r-a-t. Now b stands for beliefs or believe. R stands for resources a stands for abilities and T stands for trust and by using one of or a combination of these words you can formulate boundaries that Empower other people so you end up getting a win-win at the end of the day so say there's somebody at your office who's constantly writing to you to ask you for numbers from a spreadsheet that you have access to and it's not really your job to give them those numbers they could get those numbers another way but they keep asking you and you keep answering so you've created this unspoken agreement with this person that they're going to ask you for the numbers and you're going to provide the numbers but you notice every time their email comes in you start rolling your eyes and huffing because you're feeling resentful that you have to provide them with these numbers and so it's time to create some space there you can say to this person hey I know that I've done this in the past here is the resource that you'll need to do this in the future I trust that you have the ability to use this well and move on right so if you use these words beliefs resources abilities and Trust in some way shape or form in your boundary statements you'll find that they help to give the person who's asking you for something their power back to use their own resources you'll be increasing the level of Trust on your team because you're telling people I believe in you I trust you I know your abilities so this is a nice way to sort of hand things back over without being like no ER ah you know.
Yeah I I love that Cait and I also love that when you set that boundary where you said no I'm not going to give this information and the way you responded to it you said yes I'm gonna give you an opportunity to be self-sufficient right yes so the one of the things I think is really important for us to hold on to particularly when these nose make us feel like stressed and like we're gonna be kicked off the team or the team's not gonna like us that every time we say no to something we're also saying yes to something else and we want to get real intentional about what we're saying yes to and what we're saying no to so the yes you know we can take this on means no we can't do this other thing over here and you can also involve people right in that discussion around if we say yes to this what does this mean about this if you're a team leader you want to have that big picture how am I always how am I how am I keeping this in the flow of the big picture so that as we're saying no right or yes what is what is the opposite what is the thing that's complementing the yes or the no right they they happen simultaneously so you don't actually have to ever be in a poll you can actually recognize right that there's there's a no and a yes happening and what are they and just be present with them and figure out what's the best way to prioritize I think Vanessa has some thoughts about this too.
I would like to say you know at the end of the day folks you just gotta be selfish and it sounds bad but ultimately here's the thing you can't show up for people if you're in the hospital dehydrated on the floor can't move you just can't show up for other people and if that is the if you are heading in that direction then what good are you to anybody else what good are you to yourself so it starts with you you gotta show up for you so you can show up for other people because guess what an empty cup of water cannot share water with another cup if you run out of water in the cup what are you gonna give you don't give any more water so you just gotta be selfish folks and it's okay to be selfish it's okay to look out for number one because that person who asked you for that request guess what they were looking out for number one I know sad to say but they were gonna they were looking out for themselves they said to themselves you know what I want that request done so they asked you because they knew you weren't going to say no because they know you better than yourself they knew you were gonna say no so what they said was well I know such and such is going to say yes so let me just ask them I dare you to surprise them this week I dare you to surprise them and say no period there's no explanation there's no my sister needs me to do this there's no my cousins in the hospital there's no oh my car broke down just say no period and then return your face to your screen and continue writing that email I dare you and you know I think this really goes back to that mindset piece where we have to get around this idea that saying no is bad or that people are going to judge us or that we're not good managers and our job is always to take care of everybody else I think we have to really embrace the idea that it's okay for us to as you said to put ourselves in that number one spot and what I actually see with a lot of my clients is that they're often doing amazing things in the world in order to make the world a better place and to make sure that everybody's happy and taken care of I just I just had a session with a client who was like yeah I started this business because when I was project manager I was miserable and I wanted to create an environment where people are really happy at work and then they can provide for their families and go home and have a nice life and I'm like and what about you because he's the long working seven days a week trying to make this happen right and and he's like oh yeah yeah look that doesn't apply to me so it starts with you it has to start with you right and it's always about like looking at that mindset piece what are you telling yourself that's getting in the way of being able to say no and often there's some sort of I should be doing more I'm not doing enough and I feel guilty and I don't deserve to look for those kinds of statements because those are going to be blocking you and when you can eliminate those it's a lot easier to then follow whatever formulas like the brat method to be able to stand your ground um and I do just want to let people know that I have to bounce off but you've got five other amazing women that are going to continue this so I will see you all next time thank you so much.
Just to jump on on that I think that came back to the creating some space she mentioned looking at those statements but there has to be kind of an ability to zoom out and do some self-reflection to start to notice any of those trends that language the deprioritization of self so uh some strategies on creating some space one would be just for anyone listening I'll invite you to take a little inventory of your day-to-day even look at your calendar how much white space is there if it's just all the color coding can't relate at all uh you know back to back to back I'm gonna guess just to educate a guest you don't have a little space for that zooming out that forest from the tree so it doesn't have to be an hour a day you don't have to be meditating you know for forever you don't have to really change your life around drastically to create that space so it can really fit in with whatever the realities of your life are it might be if you're a parent and you're a business owner and you're whatever and the only time you have space for yourself is when you get to take a shower take a long shower and that's not the most environmentally friendly recommendation but if that's what time you get take that time and without the phone without other people hopefully you get you know beat to yourself there you might be able to start to check in and just see like scan from the crown of your head to your toes how am I feeling in my physical body I think Dr Sandra shows that there's a lot of Clues and data there and then check in on that emotional mental front too so see at your calendar is there any white space and where might you even have two minutes a day to start to turn inward because that's going to influence all your outward actions foreign and I would just like to say all these emotions that you're feeling they are your friend please do not kick them to the curb and act like they do not exist they are here to help you do the right thing for you and everybody else it's just like Vanessa said you go and they're broken falling down nobody you're not helping anybody you're not helping you so if you feel a real no to this thing you got to tune into that because that's telling you there's a problem here there's something that needs to be solved now the problem could be that you're questioning yourself as a leader that just means you're gonna get some coaching somebody's gonna help you you're going to feel better as a leader the problem could be you're also recognizing you don't have enough resources to do this thing well we can do this later when we have resources but do not kick your emotions to the curb they are there to help you make friends with everyone they are a superpower they are a thousand superpowers do not leave them behind wear your cape emotions on it and you know me I love resentment it's your superpower because that's my best-selling keynote and the thing I love to talk about most but Gabor mate says something in a few of his books that he said he didn't even make up he got from a therapist that said when you are stuck in a boundary situation and the decision that you have to make is either going to leave you feeling guilty or feeling resentful so either you're going to say yes and you're going to feel resentful toward that person or you're going to say no and you're going to feel guilty about saying no sometimes this is the double bind we find ourselves in right so it's not so easy just to because either way we're going to feel terrible but every time these two emotions come up if you're left with a choice between guilt and resentment go guilt every time because resentment will continue to eat at you and eat at you and eat at you and eat at you and what happens with when you choose guilt is that most frequently you'll see that people made it through without you so another reason that we don't say no and back to Sharon's ideas about mindset is that we don't we have a hard time sometimes thinking that people are going to be okay without our help and if they don't need our help then we have this sort of internal or maybe I won't say we I'll say I when they don't need our help I have this sort of internal monster that says if they don't need you you're not worthy you're not valuable so we've attached our value to being able to jump in and help people when we can so saying no first of all feels guilty second of all feels like we could be excluded from everything if we're not necessary then we don't matter right so this this game between guilt and resentment the guilt first of all choose guilt because you can handle that better and also the more you practice doing that the easier it will be for you to believe that other people are doing it too one of the like so-and-so is always going to say yes so I have to say yes but when when we start treating each other like adults and saying this person will say no if they want to it means you'll be more apt and more open to asking people for help when you need it because sometimes boundaries are about putting up fences but sometimes boundaries are about opening Gates and letting people in and asking for help so you'll feel less guilty asking for help if you say no when you when other people ask for help sometimes because you'll trust that people will be able to say no to you if they can't do it does that make sense I know that was kind of a lot of ideas in a short period of time but they all kept running through my head as we were talking and I needed to get them all out there.
Yeah I love that Cait and I will introduce myself also my name is Audrey Holst I'm the founder of fortitude and flow and guilt is a huge one that comes up a lot and I love that perspective if we look at the Neuroscience around a lot of these things why we behave the way we do and even the feelings that we have about certain stuff right it's normal our bodies are doing what they think is the right thing for us it's following the pathways that we're found to be most efficient for us at some point and that's the thing to understand is sometimes we we start to have these opinions about ourselves for feeling a certain way just like Dr Sounder is saying right like we have all of these different feelings that come through and when we fight them we actually start draining our own energy because this is information right this is really important for us to understand so our body does what we what it thinks is most efficient and when we start to create change just like when we're starting to say no or we're starting to create a boundary the natural reaction from our bodies and our nervous system is to have some resistance to it because it takes more energy if you have a pathway of guilt then guilt is the easiest thing for your body to go through it's the easiest feeling it's wired that way so when you start to create changes in that your body is going to say whoa whoa whoa hey this is this is asking more resources than what we're used to expending here that's normal so you'll go through this discomfort uncomfortable feeling which is normal it's going to feel uncomfortable and if you can get on board with that discomfort and realize oh the discomfort is actually just my body rewiring a new pathway that can make going through all of these different strategies that folks are talking about way easier and the discomfort.
I love that Audrey the discomfort is also a signal that I'm learning something new I'm growing I got you know I'm stretching a little bit I'm expanding my comfort zone you don't have to step out of your Zone you just can add things to it and as you add things to it you start to feel like okay something new here I gotta work with it so giving yourself permission to be all right with the discomfort is incredibly important fantastic oh don't I know some amazing people here with these tips the burnout panel on saying no effectively right so we talked about first tuning inward are you feeling guilt are you feeling resentment are you feeling doubt what are the emotions that you have within you and really sit down with them and explore the why behind them and then look at look outwardly look at what's happening outside in terms of your leadership preference look at what's happening in terms of do you feel empowered do you feel like your team is respecting you do you feel as though you're respecting you right because then step number three is Take the Lead rotate the lead and respect thyself whether you're using the brat framework that Cait mentioned earlier in the video in this episode if you didn't hear it rewind hear it again and or right whether you're using other tools to ensure that you have that sense of agency for yourself where you are taking care of number one which is you so you can show up for other people okay and then set number four ensure doesn't happen again what are things you can put in place to uh make sure and ensure that you are saying no effectively always and forever and that you are not continuing to knows what what was it that um that Aileen said earlier where she said that texture of overwhelm to ensure that you're not feeling that texture of overwhelm yes yes indeed love will love it.
so if you have any questions for us type it in the chat absolutely and in terms of the burnout panel right so we are here not only on LinkedIn to provide you with tips every month but we are also here a panel of six amazing experts who are here to deliver and help your team and your company grow by ensuring that you are eradicating burnout you are preventing the burnout or you are solving for the burnout that is currently existing in your team to ensure that you are more productive as a leader you are more productive as a manager you are more productive as an employee because when you your individuals are more productive the collective is more productive and the growth can occur and the abundance is what awaits each and every one and each and every Collective that happens and that is why we are here doing what we are doing showing up every month for you.
Oh my name is Vanessa Zammy by the way and I ignite had to find the evolution I never enter myself yes I know M5 evolution by emboldening women Nationwide to leave prosperous Community Enterprises and I'm here as part of the burnout panel because we are here on a mission to ensure that everyone is thriving everyone is thriving okay everyone is thriving and we are going to be back here next month as well too to share with you more insights and actionable tips on how you can combat the biggest issues on burnout.
Chat with you all later.